A broken clock is correct twice a day too. And?

Seeing as how you can't take slavery out of the question, whether or not the Civil War would have happened if slavery wasn't an issue, is a moot point. What is true and not subject to debate is the tripling of tariffs on the South. The Founding Fathers went to war with England over taxes, and the Southerners seceded over the tariffs and taxes, not Slavery.

1. Emancipation Proclamation: How was it a far reaching document when it wasn't enforceable? Slaves in the South weren't freed after Lincoln made that speech. Also, I'm curious, was it 6 years after the end of the Civil War or 6 years after he made that speech?

2. "Seward was pointing out what everyone, including Lincoln, knew -- that it
was an executive order being applied to those states in rebellion and therefore
would not have any force until those states had been brought back into the

So basically, like I said, it was a farce. It was a political move, nothing more, nothing less. The slaves would have been freed with a Union victory, regardless of whether or not Lincoln made that speech. Unless you believe Lincoln would have let the Southern States keep their Slaves after being defeated, which of course he wouldn't have because he was so super enlightened.

3. He was a racist - How do you know Adam and Paul were racists? Ghandi? Please share some racist quotes. Obama, well yeah, I can believe that. The fact that "nearly everyone" as you claim, was a racist back then, doesn't really move Lincoln up in my opinion. If he was such a great man he would have denounced slavery and promoted the mysterious notion of freedom.

His policies led to the Civil War

Ok you got me. I misspoke. I meant the protectionist policies/tariffs were the root cause of the war. They might not have been his policies. I don't know if he voted for the tariffs or not, but I do know that he promised to enforce them and he followed through with that promise.

"In the time between the election and the inauguration Lincoln was very clear
and careful to make it known that he had no intention of interfering with
slavery in those states where it already existed and where in his view it was
constitutionally protected."

Well if that's the case, why did he feel it was necessary to give the Emancipation Proclamation and make the war about Slavery? Was that a flip flop or a sudden realization of the evils of Slavery? Also if that was the case, then why would the Southern states secede, if it was just about Slavery and not the Tariffs/Taxes?

"To attribute secession, the catalyst for war, to anything other than hysteria
of the South is either ignorant or deliberately reckless, plain and simple."

So if your taxes are tripled and you get upset, you're "hysterical"? Really? Funny, that's what the lefties say about the Tea Party folks.


I didn't say that England or France would definitely join in a boycott. I said it was a possibility seeing as how they had abolished slavery in their own countries before it was ended in America. Would a boycott of trade with the South, by the North alone, have ended Slavery? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know and neither do you. But I like how you dismiss it as an absurdity.

Slavery was prosperous?

By that do you mean that farms dependent upon slave labor made money for their owners? That wasn't my argument. I said that the economy of the North was stronger than the economy of the South. If that's not true, I'd love to see some evidence to dispute that.

Why did the South want slavery expanded into the territories?

I'm no expert but I would bet that it was because the South wanted the votes the new states would provide in Congress to avoid getting steamrolled by the Northern states with new tariffs, taxes, etc. But, I could be wrong.

What was it worth going to war for?

You're saying they went to war to save slavery. I'm saying they went to war over the tariffs and wanting to secede from the Union. Which came first? Tariffs or the Emancipation Proclamation? When did the states secede? After the tariffs or after the Emancipation Proclamation?

Ideologue vs realist -"Habeus Corpus ... blah blah blah".

Well now that we know how you feel about our Constitutionally Protected rights and liberties I guess sheep like you are ok with anything Big Brother does as long as he's doing "what has to be done". Adolf did what he thought "had to be done". So did Mao, Stalin and every other dictator and tyrant in history. I guess their actions are ok with you as well? They deprived people of their life and liberties, just like Lincoln. How is Lincoln any different other than having a smaller body count?

"More than a few Confederates felt that 'when Lincoln was murdered the South
lost its best friend'".

Neat. There were a lot of colonists who were loyal to King George too. And? Who is the quote from by the way?

Secession - "Ideologically, I love it. I say hell yea. But in practical terms it
holds no water, the wild daydream of Thomas Jefferson who in his lucid moments
refuted his own admittedly radical ideologies."

It holds water, that's why your boyfriend went to war with the South. To prevent it. The fact that not enough people have the balls to demand it now, is a different matter entirely.

"In summation, acknowledging his many many faults and mistakes, even if
we let them be taken out of context, Lincoln was still the best president this
country EVER had. But perhaps it should be acknowledged that the same may not
apply to your country, the Dis-United Confederate States of Rainbows, Puppy
Dogs and Happy Pliant Slaves. I'll take my country over yours."

So to you the best president is one who goes to war to prevent States from leaving the Union, tramples on constitutionally protected rights and liberties he swore to protect, and thinks of "Negroes" as inferior to whites. Dang. I'd hate to see what your worst president stands for.

"Happy Pliant Slaves?"

LOL where did that come from? I'm pretty sure I didn't say slaves were happy and pliant.

In summation for me, Lincoln was a bastard and everything Big Brother does is under the threat of violence. Want to leave the Union? I'll kill every last one of you. Don't want to pay your taxes? I'll throw your hysterical, unpatriotic ass in jail and if you resist, I'll shoot you. Paraphrasing GWB, "you're either for Big Brother or you're against Big Brother". Whose side are you on?

Down with Big Brother! Piss on Lincoln!


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